A public health strategist on why using AI to do the same things faster changes nothing — and what mission-driven care organizations should do instead.
Ramon Llamas works on Medicaid innovation with mission-driven nonprofits. He argues the organizations with the most community trust have the least capacity to use AI, and that the gap compounds fast.
Hosted by Ishanya Anthapur with Aparna Pujar, Founder & CEO of Zemplee · Aired June 2, 2026
Ramon Llamas works on Medicaid innovation with mission-driven nonprofits and early-stage startups, alongside payers and providers. He has a public health background, spent several years at HHS in Washington, and has worked across nonprofit and for-profit social innovation for about 15 years. He writes the Flip a Switch blog on AI, health systems and communities.
AI won’t fix health care if organizations only use it to do the same things faster. Ramon Llamas argues the real gap is capacity, not interest: mission-driven nonprofits hold the trusted community relationships AI can’t buy, but lack the funding, staff and standardized data to use it. Left alone, he says, AI will widen existing health disparities instead of closing them.
His counterweight is ownership. If community organizations are trusted to hold people’s data, the people generating it should be paid when it’s used, under shared rules about what they opt into. Zemplee CEO Aparna Pujar adds the care side: for older adults, AI earns trust through education and privacy, and for caregivers, its clearest value is time handed back.
The usual conversation about AI and equity stops at access. Ramon Llamas takes it further: the organizations closest to under-resourced communities, the nonprofits with the trust, context and relationships, are the least able to adopt AI, and the gap between them and well-funded private companies grows quickly.
Llamas works on Medicaid innovation with nonprofits and early-stage startups, has a public health background and years at HHS, and writes the Flip a Switch blog. Host Ishanya Anthapur and Zemplee founder Aparna Pujar join him to talk through what a data pilot across 85 Durham organizations turned up, what Medicaid cuts and work requirements could do to coverage, and an idea Llamas is testing: that the communities generating data should be paid for it.
“You might live five to 10 years longer, but what is the quality of your life if you’re not really present in the moment?”
Ramon Llamas · Flip a Switch
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Read the full transcript 35 minutes · roughly 5,600 wordsIshanya Anthapur: Nobody mentions this. AI itself isn’t the breakthrough. AI is not going to fix healthcare or caregiving off the bat. Not if we only use it to do the same things we’re already doing, just faster. The real opportunity here is using AI to understand people and understand communities better. But that’s where everything starts to break. This is AI-Powered Caregiving, hosted by Zemplee.
On this podcast, we’re exploring how technology can actually support better, more human care. Joining me today is Ramon Llamas, a strategist and operator who’s been thinking deeply about how AI intersects with healthcare, social services, and real world human behavior. He’s also spent a lot of time looking at how nonprofits and care orgs think about AI and where the biggest gaps are. It’s not just capacity, but awareness of what’s even possible.
He dissects all of this and more on his amazing blog, Flip a Switch, which I highly recommend checking out if you’re interested in thought pieces or research on how AI is actually going to impact our lives and the communities that we’re building. Please welcome Ramon to the podcast.
Ramon Llamas: Hey, good to be here.
Ishanya Anthapur: Hi Ramon, it’s great to have you. And today we also have joining us the CEO of Zemplee. I’m really hoping you guys can come together and we can have a great conversation on what is going on with AI and what is the gap between the public and private sector of what’s happening in terms of AI and knowledge around that. But I think the best place to start would be Ramon, could you start by telling us about your work and your vision, especially for improving health equity and health systems?
Ramon Llamas: Sure. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Excited to talk about this. I know there’s probably a lot to talk about. My work the past few years has been focused on Medicaid innovation and I work with nonprofit organizations and early stage startups working with payers and other health care stakeholders. Specifically, one of our key partners are nonprofits. So mission driven nonprofits that have trusted community relationships. And so we try to bring the innovation lens and help them supplement their work and tie them to other stakeholders in the healthcare ecosystem alongside payers and providers. In the past, I mean, I have a background in public health and so I spent a few years at HHS in DC and so I got some exposure to the federal government and how they work. And then after I’ve spent the past 15 years or so.
Kind of in between nonprofits and for-profits, early stage startups, and really trying to leverage social innovation. In the past few couple years, I’ve really been diving into AI because I feel like folks in the mission-driven space or social impact space sometimes don’t have the grasp of understanding the AI’s possibilities and potential, but they do have a lot more context and understanding of how things are adopted in communities across the country.
Ishanya Anthapur: That’s really brilliant. Mean, do you think that if mission-driven orgs, nonprofits, et cetera, anyone is not thinking about AI, that stands the potential to increase the disparity in terms of health equity and health systems?
Ramon Llamas: Yeah, yeah, I mean, previous to this, I was working on a couple of food is medicine startups, and I was very much focused on like a service rather than like a tech solution. And the past few years, I’ve kind of evolved my thinking in understanding the disparity that we have, you know, back in 2020 to 2024. And then but now with AI, it’s just going to exponentially increase the disparity if we don’t if mission-driven organizations and social impact organizations don’t try to at least get ahead of it and really leverage the potential of AI.
Ishanya Anthapur: So many questions about this. Number one being maybe the first thing being like for mission driven organizations, is there, what is the biggest gap that you see between them and then sort of maybe like more tightly run private organizations in terms of that transition to the AI world, AI native world.
Ramon Llamas: Sure. I think there’s a few different things. Number one is always capacity and funding, right? So nonprofits and early stage startups, I think there’s not an exact business model that they can really grow and replicate and scale. And so the first few years of my advisory had been working with leadership in nonprofits to earned revenue, right? So through partnerships and alliances.
And really thinking about a business model that’s sustainable from a financial standpoint, rather than the traditional nonprofit, go raise money every year kind of treadmill. And I think, I feel like number one, it’s capacity. Number two, it’s limited staff that is able to do a lot of things, right? So there’s a lot of constraint from a labor standpoint when you think about mission-driven organizations. And a lot of the...
Guess a lot of the work is direct service to communities and so that’s not always scalable, right? And so financially, like private sector, usually it’s tech or tech enabled and so they’re able to scale across the country and the unit economics are so much better with the scalable models that they have.
Ishanya Anthapur: I think, have you ever, have you also heard about maybe like data or data structure being an issue as well in that regard?
Ramon Llamas: Yeah, yeah. So one of the projects I work with, it’s a nonprofit in Durham. They act more of as a convener and network, but it’s a functional co-working space, right? So imagine a co-working space for mission driven organizations, both for profit and nonprofit, all kind of serving the most under-resourced in Durham, North Carolina. There’s 85 organizations and we went through a pilot where we examined the data kind of collecting and kind of data.
Organizing and then reporting for each organization. And it was across the board and there’s no standard way. And so we undertook a pilot where we took a cohort of about five to eight organizations and we really tried to understand the process and also collect data from a few of the Medicaid populations that they served. And so there is a definite need to restructure and really standardized data amongst mission-driven organizations.
But like I said, funding is usually the capacity constraint and also just time. So there’s not always the bandwidth to undertake such a huge strategic shift.
Ishanya Anthapur: I see, okay, that makes a lot of sense. Aparna, what about your perspective?
Aparna Pujar: Yeah, hey, Ramon. Yeah, thank you. And thanks for bringing these points to highlight because I feel like it’s an area that needs constant attention, especially with the, you know, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act and the fact that there’s severe cuts for Medicare and Medicaid. What are you seeing as a payer view into this? Right. So they’re being asked to do more with less money.
And whether it’s a payer in the private or in the commercial space or whether it’s state-funded plans or Medicaid. What are you seeing from that angle and how are they thinking long-term in building sustainability into providing care? And as you know about Zemplee, we serve the older adult market in the aging services sector and that sector tends to be the one that is highest consumption of care that are the highest consumers of care dollars. So I like I’m interested to know what you’re hearing from the payer side and how do they see themselves sort of you know making this financially viable right.
Ramon Llamas: Sure. I think I have a few different thoughts, but I guess from, think you mentioned the OBBBA, whatever the acronym is, the One Big Beautiful Bill. Yeah, so I think...
Ishanya Anthapur: Yeah, whatever they’re calling it.
Ramon Llamas: I mean, at the end of the day, it’s like they’re trying to contain costs by dropping Medicaid members, right? So that’s number one. Number two, you know, a lot of the states are rolling back expansion. So it’s going to contract the number of Medicaid members that are eligible, whether it’s older populations or not. Mean, Medicaid members and Medicaid members. But I also think that payers are paying attention to the work eligibility requirements.
And as I’ve been studying this, Arkansas already had a demonstration statewide a couple years ago, and there were huge learning opportunities there. One specifically was that even though folks were working, they were still dropped from Medicaid because of compliance from the admin side rather than being eligible. So I think there are a lot of risk.
And I think Medicaid MCOs specifically understand this because if they have less members on their plans, then their risk pool shrinks. And effectively, I think it’s not going to be as effective in terms of managing care and spreading risk across the whole population versus maybe 10 % less. And to your question about older...
Adults, feel like that’s a huge older adults on Medicare and older adults in general. I feel like that is a huge opportunity with AI because I feel like AI could free up the time to then understand more context about each patient and also personalized care a little bit better from that free time. I don’t know operationally if it’s going to happen that way, but I feel like the potential is there if it’s designed in the right
Aparna Pujar: Great, thank you. Back to you, Ishanya.
Ishanya Anthapur: That’s a good point, Ramon. Think, and I’d like both of you guys to speak to this in the next question, which is in working with the aging services and the care industry, we do encounter a lot of people who are hesitant or resistant to adopting AI technology. I think we get both, right? We get the early innovators and then we get the people who are hesitant or resistant.
Care organizations, nonprofits, anyone that is sort of cautious, what would you say is the value, what do you, what do both of you see as a value of AI tools and how they will help those communities out? I’ll start with, I am curious, Aparna, what’s your perspective on that first?
Aparna Pujar: Yeah, so I think across the board, I mean, I’m looking at the studies from AARP and AARP does a lot of surveys on, know, acceptance of, in general, acceptance of technology by the older adults and more specifically AI. I think up until about three, four years ago, a lot of their studies were focused on adoption of mobile phones, you know, which was sort of considered as an indicator of how tech savvy older people were.
But I’m now increasingly seeing that, you know, most adults older adults are also, dabbling into, know, using ChatGPT or any of these other tools that are out there. Many of them are asking for education. So I think, I think as we know this population, you know, they’re not, they’re not, as experimental as the younger population is. And the best way to work with them is to sort of tell them what the AI does, educate them, guide them. And then, you know, make them comfortable about adopting it. And there are always people who will be the early adopters and play around with it, but I think they’re still doing very superficial, like tell me what the weather is like or what should I cook for today and recipe, which is harmless content. There’s also fear of getting scammed and targeted, which is part of their hesitancy in adopting AI.
And where it comes to, think what is very personal and important to them is how the privacy aspect of that is being measured, maintained. Because as complicated as privacy laws are, it is hard for an older adult to comprehend everything that’s out there and then really look at how they don’t become a subject or a victim of anything that’s harmful or malicious out there. Ramon, what are you seeing?
Ishanya Anthapur: Yeah, and Ramon, do you see any overlap between what Aparna’s seeing and also like the orgs that you’re working with or the communities that are in those orgs that those orgs work with?
Ramon Llamas: Yeah, I think there’s similarities about the cautious to adopt. But I do think there’s two different angles to it, right? So there’s the organization leveraging AI to be able to do their jobs more effectively and efficiently. And then there’s the consumer facing AI and that technology side, which I think both are applicable. But I think that there’s ways.
Similar to stratifying risk for, let’s say, a social determinants of health kind of needs, unmet social needs stratification, I think there’s a way to stratify risk on adoption of AI, right? And like comfort with it. And so I think the folks that are willing to try it, I feel like that’s a cohort that can really move faster and all they need is a little education and a little more conversation and dialogue about it.
And on the other side, if they’re hesitant, then maybe it’s just leaning more towards organizational AI use to then carve out extra time for actual face-to-face interaction and more personalized care that way physically in person. But more broadly, mean, I think the data piece, that is something that I’ve been exploring a lot with a lot of nonprofit organizations because if they are trusted, folks in the community, like the organizations themselves are trusted by the people they serve, is there a way to then share data, opt in to share data from the people that they’re serving, but then compensate them fairly for that data, right? So could that data be used as currency and help them kind of sustain their lives in whatever form they need it, but actually instead of being extractive,
Having them as part of this new income that’s generated through the data and analytics and whatever else, what other business models can come out of the data.
Ishanya Anthapur: Yeah, my god, that’s like a, I’ve never heard of that idea. I think that’s really cool and revolutionary. Do you have any examples, real world examples or even just thought pieces on how to achieve that? Like say you are mission driven or maybe you’re like a Meals on Wheels. How are you gonna?
Ramon Llamas: Sure. We’re kind of developing that. We’re in stealth right now. But one of my projects in Durham, we’re kind of thinking through that and looking. We’ve been putting it in projects and actually proposals to test whether or not it can happen. But I do think that it’s a shared governance, right? So it’s like, hey, what are the guidelines to sharing this data? What can I opt into? What’s the privacy issues? Like, I think it’s a very long discussion.
With communities and seeing who wants to opt in and volunteer. And honestly, think data sharing, I mean, it’s already happening, right? But it’s not, you’re not getting reimbursed for being on social media, for example. You’re seeing all the ads and you’re seeing all the targeted ads. And there’s a lot of business models behind that, but nobody’s making money from it, right? Like we’re just consuming social media and they’re actually making a lot of money from us.
How do we change that framework? I think the closest that I’ve got, I’ve seen this in action is Andrew Yang. So a former presidential candidate really focused on UBI and universal basic income. He started a new venture called Noble Mobile. And so he started a phone plan or service provider where they capped the monthly. So it’s like $50 a month.
On average, like $80 lower than any other unlimited plan. But instead, what they do is if you use less phone usage, then they actually refund you money, right? So his whole thing is, can we reward you for getting off your phone a little bit more? And so that comes directly back to your pocket. And what he noted on one of the podcasts I listened to was that a lot of the under-resourced folks that we’re talking about are typically the ones who are most consumer
Consuming all these kind of unhealthy things, right? So, you know, social media, smartphones, they’re addicted to technology and screens and also the unhealthy foods like fast food and a lot of, I guess, lifestyles that aren’t the most health forward, so.
Aparna Pujar: Conducive for you. Well, that’s a very interesting concept. Yeah, and I can see, you know, even parents sort of adopting those because they’re trying to get their kids off of phones and you’re starting to see that movement across the world. Yeah, I mean, I think nothing like an incentive based program for people to get off of bad or unproductive habits, right?
Ramon Llamas: Yeah, and you’re reinforcing it through financial. And I feel like right now economic issues are nonpartisan. It affects everybody and regardless of income level, unless you’re in the top 5%, maybe. I feel like everybody is kind of looking out for their bank accounts at these times.
Ishanya Anthapur: Yeah. And I think what you say is a great idea because not only is it attractive to, you know, those in underserved communities, but who doesn’t want a little more change in their pockets from what we’re already doing every single day and getting dragged into by all these major tech companies.
Ramon Llamas: Yeah, yeah. And what I’m seeing more broadly to I’m sorry to interrupt, but like, I’m seeing kind of in person and more connection, experience driven things like that’s a trending thing. And it’s, it’s funny, because like, I ran into a group of high school, a high school group, I think they were like 16, 17. They were at a coffee shop that I was working out of. And they asked me to take their picture and they handed me a Polaroid camera and I was like, you’re too young to know what this is. But obviously it’s like a newer generation product. But even them, they’re like, I think there’s a subset of the population that’s really trying to say, hey, I want to get off screens. I want to get off social media. I want to get off. I want to interact with people. Right. And I think that’s, that’s going to be more, I think that’s going to be more prevalent in terms of intentionality, you know, with AI everywhere, with technology everywhere. Think attention.
Is a currency. And so the more, you know, we are able to control our own attention and intentionally design with the lives that we want, I feel like that’s, I think that’s the direction where we could go also, really leveraging AI, I think I put in my blog about, you know, it’s not necessarily about optimizing life, because I’ve read so many stories of folks like, really trying to say, Hey, how can I live longer without it, then they just kind of
Day to day, they’re like not really paying attention, not building those relationships. And so, yes, you might live five to 10 years longer, but what is the quality of your life if you’re not really present in the moment? So.
Aparna Pujar: That’s correct. 100%.
Ishanya Anthapur: Where do both see AI fitting into this narrative? Because with more AI, I wonder if that contrasts with the idea of like getting off of technology. Or do we think that AI can help you streamline your focus, accomplish your task sooner so that you might get off of technology, have more time for that?
Ramon Llamas: Partner do you want to start?
Aparna Pujar: Yeah, so I think when, so I’ll kind of say this from the perspective of the, you know, our clients or our customers that we serve. And we serve both on the institution. We mostly serve all, you know, business customers, either in institute or home care agencies. And so the clearest value proposition of where we see our tool or our technology offer them as value or benefit.
Is as you rightly pointed out, freeing up time. And whether I’m looking at a caregiver or a staff in a facility and someone who’s helping with very high needs clients, I think we are happy that our product can give them five or 10 minutes. And that 10 minutes is something that they can use to take a break, maybe get a walk out, get some fresh air.
Or hang out with other friends and chat. So I feel like while that is not quantifiable and there is no commercial value you can put on it, the social aspect or the social value of that is so huge. And more importantly, it’s also a significant health benefit for the caregiver. So even if you’re giving them breaks in between, work that adds up to a little bit here, a little bit here can add up to a huge amount of benefit.
Like said, and I feel like that’s the biggest value proposition that the way we are structured, our business can bring to our clients. Right. So, and I know that in the, in the business side of AI adoption, where AI technology is coming in a lot of effort that I know that clinical staff or even caregiving staff is finding is in documentation or charting as they call it. And I feel like, you know, that is another area where AI can significantly deliver value, not only in terms of the sheer volume of documentation that they have to do, but also in terms of being more accurate and more comprehensive about what is being documented. Sure, you still want a human in the loop where someone is reviewing and approving the comments, but the sheer grunt of someone wanting to document every little piece.
It can be either reduced or eventually even eliminated. So we run into situations where we actually tell them, what if you don’t have to do this? You’re letting the system do this and their eyes go, what? I you mean I don’t have to do documentation? I said, yeah, there are technologies that can do this for you and all you have to do is review and edit and make approve what is written. But even if it saves you, I think what I...
What I heard from one of the research reports is about 30 % of a caregiver or a clinician’s time is spent in documentation. So even if we were to reduce that by half, I’m not even saying you take it out fully, it will contribute significantly to A, maybe there is productivity gains, which is how you economically measure it. But also I feel like, know, some sort of benefit or a quality benefit that accrues with the caregiver who also needs to be cared for.
Ishanya Anthapur: Yeah, so it definitely sounds like you see it as bringing up time for people. Briefly, Ramon, what do you think? Especially like the balance of creating like space for that human connection.
Ramon Llamas: Yeah, I mean, I think personally, I’ve written about this too, I mean, I get to the time I save. So for example, if I’m like working on proposals or doing development work for some projects, the time it would have taken me to research like who the funder is and who the, you know, what the, I need to know to understand how to package and frame, you know, the project or proposal in the right way. That’s.
Reduced significantly, right? So then I can either, I can scale that to a lot more organizations and so hopefully scaling my impact and or if I choose not to pursue certain opportunities and like free up that time, I mean, I have that choice, I can make that by the minute or the hour. And so it’s really, I think it gives people the optionality to really design and understand and take autonomy of how they want to, you know, do their day to day work, especially in this kind of remote or hybrid kind of workforce. I mean, I think folks like me and I think a lot of other organizations and companies are more trusting of their employees or staff and teammates to just be like, hey, just get the work done. Whenever you need to, whenever you’re able to get the work done in your, you know, my managing and balancing your life, like get it done. And as long as you’re doing that, I don’t think we’d we necessarily need to say, you need to do it between nine and five, right? I think the new dynamic is choose what works best for you in terms of schedule. If we need to check in, you know, one day a week and we have to carve out three hours, like in the middle of the day, like let’s plan for that. Otherwise, like people have lives. I mean, they’re juggling families, they’re caregivers, they have a lot of other things outside of just their work life.
And I think that, you know, I feel like I hope we can move in the direction of like, hey, your work life is not your whole life, right? And so, yeah.
Ishanya Anthapur: Well, I think Silicon Valley could take a leaf from you, take a pitch from you, Ramon, because I don’t know. I think there is also the contrasting side where with AI, it’s basically just you can do more work. So we’re going to keep you here more and longer, but obviously it depends on how your organization’s structured and how much intentionality your organization carves out for you and how much you carve out for yourself.
So I really liked that point about it. Has to be intentional with any new tool. Can obviously all get sucked in, but yeah, it’s we’re just in such a transition phase with AI. And I think your perspective and your perspective of partner, both of you guys, that AI is the tool. It’s not the end all be all. And it’s the tool to help human life, human potential, human dignity at the end of the day is really key. I want to finish up with just a couple.
Aparna Pujar: Yeah, one second, Ishaan, sorry to interrupt. But yeah, think one thing I did want to bring, highlight Ramon, the point that you made was about the public-private partnership and how it can help. So our country, I think largely the entire world is facing massive shortage of professional caregivers, clinicians, medical people. And I feel like the power of AI can be that.
You know, about 60 % of the workforce that is employed today are caregivers to their, to a family member or aging, you know, aging parent. And I think this balance of how the public private partnership can come together is that right by using tools. If I can go home early to take care of my mom or dad, it’s a perfect balance of how you’re not depending on, you know, you’re not sort of big handicap because of the shortage of caregivers in the market, but you’re also giving family a chance to balance it out in a meaningful way. There are a lot of studies out there about how people are quitting their jobs to take care of their elderly parents, but in this way, it can benefit both the corporations or the private entities and generally people who employees and people who want to balance out that without having to give up their jobs. So that’s a perfect example of where AI can come in and help.
Help the society in a very meaningful and mindful way.
Ramon Llamas: Yeah, and just to pull on that thread a little bit more, I feel like it could be in some startup can do like in a package like some sort of caregiving AI thing as a service, right? So like, could that be a benefit for staff members who maybe have family outside of the area, and they don’t have to necessarily like they can’t move to there. But like, could there be support more locally or through AI by caregiving, you know, smartphone or smart home kind of devices where it you can kind of pay attention, but you don’t have to physically be close, right? So I think that is the power of technology. And I think as a benefit, mean, if you can, if you can, you know, relieve your employees of that burden from a mental standpoint, I feel like they’ll be more productive and less likely to burn out, right? Because they have to juggle. Yeah.
Aparna Pujar: And more committed to the organization as well. And thank you. I will take that as a plug for Zemplee.
Ishanya Anthapur: Awesome. Great ideas, everyone. I’m, I feel like we’re all on the same page. And I’ve know that this sector is changing a lot, the aging sector in particular, and then the nonprofit sector as well. And I think there’s a real chance for them to really grab AI and technology by the horns and kind of elevate themselves. And I’m really glad.
Ramon, that we got to meet you and hear a lot about it. I want to finish up with some final questions here. I always ask these to our guests, so I’m going to ask both of you. But what books do you recommend people read about AI, about technology, about transition periods, about this time in life, about nonprofit sector, anything that you are very interested in? Ramon, I’ll go to you first.
Ramon Llamas: Sure. I don’t have a lot of time to read, I did spend a few weeks during the holiday season getting into some novels like so fiction. There’s this author, Swedish author, Fredrik Backman. I heard him on a podcast and so I started listening because I felt like I could relate to his, I don’t know, humility.
It’s just like, hey, I’m not a smart guy, but you know, I’m a writer anyway. And so, you know, he’s written this great books that are full of depth in terms of just how people have to manage relationships and life and all the various struggles is not always a happy ending. You know, I think it’s realistic to me, even though it’s fiction. So I recommend Fredrik Backman from a reading standpoint, but then I listen to podcasts. So I usually to try to like save time. Mean, I’m listening to podcasts while I’m doing chores. So the Heart of Healthcare podcast, really AI and healthcare focus. And then Simon Sinek’s A Bit of Optimism. So that helps me kind of recharge and think about things in a different way because I think the world needs more optimism, especially in the US.
Ishanya Anthapur: Yeah, those both sound really interesting. And I will say, I will personally plug your blog again, Flip a Switch, because that’s also a great read. And then a partner, what about you? What are you reading or, you know, listening to that you would recommend?
Aparna Pujar: Yeah, I think on the book, recently picked up this book on communications by Charles Duhigg. I tend to pick up my books when I’m at the airports, still old fashioned in terms of picking up hard copies and reading. And I think one thing that stood out to me is, you know, we, there’s so much hullabaloo made about communications, but often in relationships, you know, there’s one thing that you want to simplify your relationship with people, which is, know, do you want, I think he puts it very succinctly, is, do you want to be heard? Do you want to be helped? Do you want to be hugged? And that synthesizes everything for me in human relationships. So I feel like that’s an amazing book to read. Obviously, Simon Sinek on optimism, that one is definitely on my reading list today. But yeah, I do listen to a lot of podcasts, mostly on management strategy, is what we’re trying to do. And also trying to understand how, a little bit about reading blogs, about how to innovate the insurance space. So a lot of, I think, grassroot level innovation is required. And I’m definitely going to continue to subscribe to your blog Ramon. So I’m going to continue to read the Flip a Switch, definitely.
Ishanya Anthapur: Also some like great options, wow. And really is in line with what we were talking about carving out intentionality and being an intentional speaker and communicator or being intentional about the work that you’re doing, being optimistic and bringing that energy. Wow, well, thank you both so much for this wonderful conversation. And yeah, I’m really excited to just see how the nonprofit space.
Changes, how we can all work together for good. I think that’s the key thing here is like we hear so much about AI and maybe it’s being used not in the best ways possible, but I think there are opportunities to use it to do amazing good acts is also limitless. So thanks everyone.
Aparna Pujar: Yeah, it was great meeting with you Ramon and all the best.
Ramon Llamas: Thank you. Good to meet you guys. Thank you.
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