Zemplee Podcast : Episode 12

Ishanya Anthapur: Do older adults actually like technology? Let me explain. More and more technologies for older adults are coming into the market — from smart homes and ambient monitoring systems like Zemplee, to telehealth appointments, to digital games and virtual reality. Innovation in aging is accelerating, but a crucial question remains on the table. Do older adults truly experience these technologies as empowering? Or are these technologies quietly altering their identities, their autonomy, and the feeling of being at home in peace?

Today's conversation sits at the intersection of gerontology, design, and the future of age technology. This is AI-Powered Caregiving, and I'm Ishanya Anthapur from Zemplee, where we actually do think deeply about how technology can support aging in place with dignity. I'm a product manager designing solutions for caregivers and older adults in the home alike.

Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Dr. Julie Brown, gerontologist, professor, age tech researcher, and one of the leading voices exploring how older adults actually integrate digital technology into everyday life. Dr. Julie Brown is an associate professor of gerontology at Ohio University and the coordinator of the university's Aging and Gerontology program. She's also a leading researcher with many publications to her name on aging in place, digital technology use among older adults, age-inclusive design, and more. Welcome, Dr. Brown.

Dr. Julie Brown: Thank you so much for having me. It's delightful to be here with you today.

Ishanya Anthapur: I'm really excited to dive into our conversation. I think the first question that would be top of mind for most people listening is: could you briefly tell us what exactly gerontology is?

Dr. Julie Brown: Well, simply put, gerontology is the study of older adulthood. And folks don't just arrive, say, at age 75. They have an entire lifetime of experiences behind them that shape their aging experience. Gerontology is such a huge area — it's like saying, I have a degree in science. Well, what kind of science? Is it biology? Is it physics? Gerontology is similar in that it very much focuses on the aging experience, but the questions vary enormously. Are you looking at policy? Are you looking at aging in place? Are you looking at aspects related to dementia, a person's neurons? So it's incredibly broad.

Age tech is one of those pieces underneath that big umbrella. And as a side note, geriatrics is a part of gerontology — geriatrics is what people tend to hear about, and that's looking at the medical and disease side of aging. I'm focused on aging in place and technology and how it's shaping the aging experience.

Ishanya Anthapur: Okay, wow. How did you get interested in gerontology? And what aspects of it are you really looking at?

Dr. Julie Brown: Well, just a quick backstory of how I even got into this. I used to be a high school guidance counselor, many, many years ago. And I've always wanted to do something related to older adults — I just didn't know what. This is back in the day before Google was even a thing, so it's not like I could just go online and do any kind of search.

At one point in the early 2000s, I started volunteering at an assisted living facility, helping out with activities — painting nails, crafts, whatever was needed. And around 2006, the activity director came in and said, "I have this new game I'd love for you to set up for our residents, but I know nothing about it." She brought in the Nintendo Wii. That was a game changer. I hooked that thing up and the residents went wild for it.

And I started watching their engagement with this new form of technology — the conversations, the reminiscence, how some of them regarded it as a form of exercise. I thought, there's something really interesting happening here. Even though age tech wasn't really a developed field at that time — it was more talked about in parts of Western Europe — I decided to pursue my PhD with a focus on gerontology and how technology was starting to become more integrated into our lives, and how that could be helping or hindering quality of life for older adults.

Ishanya Anthapur: That's so fascinating. I can just imagine something like the Wii being a huge hit — even from my days playing Wii as a kid. I'm really interested because your work explores digital games and virtual environments for older adults. Do you feel like playing those games or being in those virtual environments affects their brain training in any way?

Dr. Julie Brown: That's a million dollar question, and there's been a lot of research in that area. To back up quickly — I've done over 90 interviews with older adult gamers. And there are more out there than most people realize. When I started my research, there were actually more older persons playing digital games than younger persons, believe it or not. That was the era of handheld games, which were very popular with older adults.

When I asked them why they play and what their motivation is, not a single older gamer said it was because they wanted to help themselves cognitively as they age. That wasn't a thing. They're doing it because it's fun. And that's something we tend to overlook with older persons. At least in the United States, aging tends to be viewed through a medical lens — aging is something to fix. But it's also something to be celebrated, a time for engagement. Technology has the potential to promote fun, to immerse a person in their background so they can continue doing the things they want to do. Even if it's not actively being used for socialization, it can support their life however they want to lead it independently.

Ishanya Anthapur: I think you bring up a great point — older adults need to have fun. They deserve to have fun. In fact, they have a lot of time to have fun.

Dr. Julie Brown: Yeah. And the money — not everybody, of course, but there's more disposable income in that population than in others. And technology is not this big scary thing for most older adults, the way other folks tend to think it is. There are a lot of older adults who absolutely embrace technology.

Ishanya Anthapur: That's really interesting to think about. In your research, do you work mostly with populations in cities, suburban areas, or more rural settings?

Dr. Julie Brown: I've done both. Right now I'm at Ohio University in southeast Ohio, in the Appalachian region, which is a very rural area. That really comes into play when it comes to technologies that rely on internet connectivity — in rural areas, there isn't always the infrastructure in place to support that. I have neighbors who have the capacity or connectivity available, but may not be able to afford it. And the opposite is also true — a person can afford the technology and wants it, but the internet connectivity isn't there, or they have to spend a great deal extra to get service out to where they are.

I've been looking at how this shapes the rural aging experience — what it means for those who can connect versus those who have more limited accessibility. Those kinds of considerations really matter when thinking about the older adult consumer in this space.

Ishanya Anthapur: Of course. I asked because we work with older adults in different areas, and I do feel like people in rural areas are sometimes a little less receptive to things like ambient home monitoring or having a smart speaker talk to them. I think the hesitation is valid — you may be less exposed to it or less interested. But you bring up a great point that technology is all around us. Most people already have a smartphone, and there are a lot of gamers out there. So I think it really comes down to helping people get comfortable and understand what's happening in the home with sensing or any new technology. And framing it through a lens of fun seems like a great approach.

Dr. Julie Brown: Sure. Whether it's through the lens of fun or through the lens of engagement, especially when the product is set up so that it's embedded in the background to help them continue doing whatever enhances their quality of life — they may not be using that technology for fun, but it's there to support them so they can keep doing whatever it is that matters to them.

Ishanya Anthapur: Continue to have fun. Speaking of enhancing quality of life — what role are digital games playing in social connection and healthy aging?

Dr. Julie Brown: This is a fun one, and I'll try my best not to get carried away because I get excited about this. I have an entire 200-page dissertation on it if you want to read it! But what I found with the older adult gamers I interviewed is that a lot of them play for purposes of reminiscence. For example, one of the women I interviewed said she used to play baseball growing up with her dad, and now she plays baseball-style digital games. It's a way for her to connect with that memory.

Others — some of the middle-aged adults I interviewed who are now older adults — were children during the space race era. Movies about Martians, landing on the moon, all of that. And a lot of those things they engaged with in childhood are reflected in the digital games they enjoy now. Or they've been playing some version of those games their whole lives.

And then there are those who enjoyed playing with dolls in their youth and are now into the Sims-type games. Or they're playing games that connect them with friends or loved ones — a back-and-forth Scrabble-type game, for instance — where they can drop each other messages and stay connected throughout the day. That can actually be really helpful for a caregiver on the receiving end, knowing that mom is engaged because they saw her make the next move. Instead of conversations about ailments or "did you take your medicine?" — which can get redundant or even annoying for some older adults — it's, "I'd rather do this because this is more fun."

Ishanya Anthapur: Totally. I love what you said about reminiscence. Memory recall — thinking back on your youth — is so important for older adults. It's healthy in its own right, but it's also linked to brain training and memory function. And I love the point about a gamer grandparent connecting with a grandchild who's also a gamer. That's beautiful.

Dr. Julie Brown: Absolutely. I've had a number of grandparents share with me that they keep a gaming system in their home so that when their grandkid comes over, they can play together. And what they said is, it's not really the game they enjoy so much — it's the tool for connection. It's about having fun with their grandkid and making those core memories that the grandchild is going to carry with them. "I remember playing whatever it was with grandma." So yeah, it's a tool for connection. The game itself isn't really the focus — it's the memory-making.

Ishanya Anthapur: And going forward, pretty much everyone from Gen X and down has some connection to digital gaming or virtual reality. So I feel like this research is really poised to set the tone for how gaming and aging in the home is viewed, because everyone's going to be a gamer by the time I'm 60 or 70 or 80.

Dr. Julie Brown: For sure.

Ishanya Anthapur: Which leads me to my next question. As AI and ambient home monitoring systems become more embedded in homes and in society, what are some of the ethical tensions that innovators should be paying attention to?

Dr. Julie Brown: There's a lot, right? One of the key things is: to what extent does the older adult feel like they have a say in the matter? To what extent do they feel like — whether there's an adult caregiver in their life, an adult child, or they're in a residential setting — their voice is being heard? "I don't want this. I don't need this." It works better when technology can be integrated into their life gradually so that it becomes something trusted.

There are also significant ethical issues related to privacy. For example, I've encouraged my mom to use certain technologies because she's had a few falls. And she says, "No, I don't want to use that — I don't want the government seeing,I don't want Facebook seeing." And those are real concerns. Especially when you hear about older adults getting scammed — receiving an email that looks like it's from Amazon but isn't. If they've already had that kind of scare, there is a real hesitancy. "Are they spying on me? Are they listening to me?" So there needs to be a lot of clarity and transparency.

On the other end of it, my mother-in-law uses an Apple Watch and she's had falls as well. But that product was integrated into her life earlier on, before any crisis happened. So it's not an intrusion. It wasn't introduced in a moment of emergency. Those are the big issues I'd encourage folks to think about: transparency, making sure the older adult understands what's happening with their information, who has access to it, and making sure they genuinely feel like they have a say in how technology is incorporated into their life.

Ishanya Anthapur: That makes a lot of sense. Nobody really wants their private health information circulated, and we all want some sense of independence and control. But I think what you're saying raises a really interesting point — and I know you've written about this recently — which is that people who are innovating in this space should be very mindful of the older adult's perspective when designing these solutions. Have you seen most age tech companies take this into account, or is there room for improvement?

Dr. Julie Brown: There's always room for improvement. My impression of the age tech space lately is that it's become a bit of the Wild West. Innovators are really starting to grasp that we have this huge and growing population aging into older adulthood, and there's tremendous opportunity — along with a lot of good intentions, really honorable intentions. And some not so honorable.

Those who really do their homework learn that you need people from multiple areas of expertise coming together. But who's more of an expert about older adults than older adults themselves? Involving them in conversations early on is essential. And there's no one older adult who can represent everybody's perspective — so it's really about engaging a variety of older adults, especially those who would be the target consumer. Asking them: if I had AI in my home, what would my concerns be? What would make me cautious about it? Under what circumstances would I not want it?

The earlier that the aging perspective — ideally from older adults themselves as well as from gerontologists who focus specifically on understanding the aging experience — is incorporated heavily into the design process, the more evidence shows it will be better received down the line and require fewer revisions later. I'm definitely seeing more of that happening.

Ishanya Anthapur: I feel like that's just good product design in general — involving your target market in the ideation process, because the customer is really going to give you the ideas. For example, as a product manager at Zemplee, what's been really helpful for me is getting to connect with the actual end users of our product. We have a passive remote monitoring system and a smart speaker integration, focused on monitoring behavior and vitals in the home and keeping people in their places of residence longer. I have three older adults I like to call on speed dial — I can call them on my Alexa and just talk to them. And what I've learned is that even though I've been in this space for three or four years, they always have something valuable to offer. They'll always surprise me. So I think it's really worthwhile to just have those conversations and keep a few people in your network if you're designing in the age tech space.

Dr. Julie Brown: That's crucial. And I'm so glad that Zemplee has made a point of doing that due diligence. Because you have multiple consumers in this space, right? It's not just the older adult — as important as that end consumer is. You also have the caregivers, whether informal, like family members and community friends, or formal caregivers in residential communities. So yeah, there are multiple consumers to involve. And that's really what audience studies research is about — getting input from all of them throughout the entire development of a product or service.

Ishanya Anthapur: Audience studies. I like that. We also call it user studies, but same idea. I have a few more questions. Do you think the gamification of health is going to take off in the market of older adults?

Dr. Julie Brown: I keep waiting for that to happen. It's been talked about in my circles for easily the past 20 years. Gamification has come into our lives through so many different pipelines. When it comes to health specifically, I see it scratching the surface, but I haven't yet seen it become embedded to the extent that some circles would like to see.

Who knows — I also wonder to what extent my generation, Gen X, right behind the baby boomers, has been going through adult life with gamification becoming more and more present. We're more used to it. And experience with something really does speak to how much it could be adopted later on. So I'm curious to see whether Gen X and then millennials, being more accustomed to gamification in our daily lives, will be more receptive to it as a health tool as we age.

Related to that — when I interview middle-aged adults, dementia is the thing that comes up. They say they're more likely to play a game or engage with some type of technology if they think it might stave off potential cognitive decline. That was the middle-aged adults, not older adults. So that could have more to do with where the marketing messages were landing at the time compared to today's older adult population.

Ishanya Anthapur: Yeah, I can see that. So it hasn't fully taken off yet, but we'll keep our eyes peeled. On a lighter note — are you a gamer yourself?

Dr. Julie Brown: Not really. I do play a really mean Mario Kart, I will say that. That's actually how my husband and I have settled disputes — "Okay, let's take it to Mario Kart." So that's a fun way to handle things. But I wasn't an Atari kid growing up and never really got into gaming because it just wasn't in our home. That ties back to what we talked about — experience and access both contribute to motivation. And even when I introduced the Nintendo Wii to the residents at the assisted living facility 20 years ago, I wasn't playing along with them. I was there to monitor and make sure everything was okay. I really just enjoy watching. It's more of the scientist in me — the ethnography of it, sitting back and observing the behavior and the conversations that emerge. I truly enjoy watching people play. But Mario Kart — I'll challenge anybody on that any time of the day.

Ishanya Anthapur: I want to play! My Mario Kart skills are pretty rusty, but that was the one game I loved growing up. Not a huge gamer myself, but like we talked about, gamification is already so much a part of our lives that we're all kind of gamers in some way. So — what books or pieces of media are you reading or consuming right now that you'd recommend? Age tech related or totally for fun.

Dr. Julie Brown: Sure. The one I'm currently reading — well, I've read it easily 20 times — is The Longevity Economy by Joe Coughlin. If you're interested in the world of age tech and not yet familiar with it, particularly the first half of the book is essential. I use it for my Business of Aging course, where I teach students in the gerontology program. When it comes to the business side of aging — whether it's looking at how companies market to older adult consumers, what messages they're sending, how something could be designed better, to what extent they're aware of the invisible aspects of aging — this book is a great foundation. Innovators may look at data or design, but are they recognizing the real lived experiences? The frustrations? The guilt that a caregiver carries? The Longevity Economy helps hone in on that rich context.

Another book I return to regularly is Being Mortal by Atul Gawande — and as a fun side note, Atul is from Athens, Ohio. He grew up here. So Atul, if you're ever listening, connect with your fellow Athenian! I use that book every semester as well. I pair older adults with my students, and they read the book together and share their perspectives. It really opens things up for a richer discussion. It's another case of where folks tend to make assumptions about aging. For example, most people think of older adults as living in nursing homes — but that's only 4 to 5% of the older adult population. Where's the other 95%? They're working in your community, volunteering, or they may be at home feeling isolated. Books like these help broaden that perspective.

Ishanya Anthapur: Wow, this class sounds amazing. You're teaching it at Ohio University — is it auditable or available virtually?

Dr. Julie Brown: The course that focuses more on the family aspects of aging and caregiving has been available virtually — that started during the pandemic when everything went virtual. I may move it back to in-person at some point. My Business of Aging course is in person, but there's a graduate section that can be taken remotely. And even if someone just wanted to connect with me to talk about some of the ideas or concepts from those courses, I absolutely welcome it. As you can tell, I just get excited talking to anybody about these topics.

Ishanya Anthapur: Yes, definitely. I can tell you're passionate and very well-researched. We are so grateful to have you on the podcast.

Dr. Julie Brown: Thank you. This was a lot of fun — has it really been 30 minutes? I could go on for another two hours. That's the educator in me.

Ishanya Anthapur: We're going to have to talk again soon, Julie, because I have more questions. But even what we covered today was amazing. Thank you so much.

Dr. Julie Brown: Great. Thank you. I had a lot of fun.